Just Cause 2 Or Heavy Rain?…. The Response

Good god, what have I done! I tried to write an intelligent and thoughtful article which would incite a debate with intelligent responses,  instead of 12 year olds with personal insults.

Guess which I got.

By ‘WhatARump’

I looked at the title in confusion

I read the first paragraph and was no longer confused-

Summary: The writer is a dumbass.

By Chris339

His troll-fu is weak though, compared to the master’s. Back to suckle at Jim’s hairy teat of trollish wisdom.

Better luck next time.

And ffs don’t get curious and click on the link, I guarantee nothing intelligent is inside.

Lovely that you take the time to comment and call me unintelligent, without even clicking the link. If you clicked it, you would’ve found out that I’m not comparing Just Cause 2 vs Heavy Rain as complete experiences. As icons in the industry, Heavy Rain should leave a mark. It’s an experiment gone wrong, but an experiment nonetheless.

I think this is what peeves me off more than anything else I’m seeing from the comments section – “What, but you can’t even compare them?”, “Troll!”, exactly what I expected from some people. I didn’t want this to hit N4G, it did but I knew it wouldn’t get to me, low and behold a billion accusations.

Some comments I’m happy with.

By zenosega04

Well since reviews are just opinions, it would seem that in the opinion of most “professional” reviewers Heavy Rain is a very good game. Hence its critical acclaim.

And yes, I would agree with most reviewers in saying that GTA 4 was better than 95% of the games that had been released up until that point. What some of you seem to be forgetting is that Grand Theft Auto came out before nearly every other critically acclaimed of the generation. Before Uncharted 2, LittleBigPlanet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Mass Effect 2, God of War 3… and any other critically acclaimed game with in the last 2 years.

I’m not saying that GTA 4 was perfect, or that it even deserved the 98 average, but the fact of the matter is GTA 4 was a great game. Just because you hated it and most people on this site and many other sites seem to dislike it, that doesn’t negate the fact that there are millions of people that loved GTA 4.

And I’m not saying that Heavy Rain and Just Cause 2 are in anyway comparable, the metacritic scores were just to prove a point.

By Gradient

Detective Dumphuck outdoes himself.

That doesn’t even make any sense!

By callahan09

Quit stealing from Destructoid!

This was something I got a lot too, that apparently actually having an opinion is ‘trolling’. I go to Destructoid a lot but none of the writers influence me. I think Jim Sterling is hilarious but not always on top form. Usually I’ll cite Anthony Burch as a writing influence, but that’s about it. I think that you can find some very intelligent and thoughtful discussions on DTOID, instead of people who just throw a title away and consider it ‘trolling’.

By Aphne

I’m not even going to click on the link. So many flamebait headlines now, it’s getting ridiculous.

This is the thing, I said earlier, that I’m tired about. Whenever a title says something controversial or ‘trolling’, it’s just pointed towards Destructoid and not even read. What is the point of having websites such as Platform Nation or Destructoid or any possible combination, unless you’re willing to read and comment on the material given. Disagree, I love it when disagree, but disagreeing without even bothering to hear my argument is what gets me about the gaming community.

By Optical_Matrix

Over the past couple of weeks N4G’s front page has looked like someone ejaculated a nice big dose of 2007 all over the place. This is just ridiculous. Hate on Sony and their games. Could we please stop. The two games aren’t even comparable

Oh, so comparing a multiplatform game is fine, but when it’s an exclusive it’s out of bounds? I’m happy that Heavy Rain is on the PS3, given the smaller userbase it’s more of a ‘mature title’ instead of some of the fodder on the 360. Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to Alan Wake, but titles such as Gears of War and Halo just hit the sweet spot with the market. Big, tough guys going into killing things. All nice and dandy. I’m not going to get into a console debate, because I think that each system offers its own great market and plethora of exclusives.

The last sentence “They aren’t even comparable.”, oh really? Just Cause 2 obviously didn’t experiment with player emotion and reaction, Heavy Rain tried something on the polar opposite of Just Cause 2. But as videogames, Heavy Rain shouldn’t be heralded as a new age; it should be a stepping stone for a future generation to get it right. If I had a choice between Heavy Rain and Just Cause 2, as videogames, then I would pick Just Cause 2. If I had to wipe one of the games from the history of the Earth, then it would have to be Just Cause 2, because Heavy Rain means something to some gamers. It means a little to me. It’s a courageous title and one that will likely be important in the next generation of consoles.

By harrykid32

I didn’t even read the article. But comparing a quick time event thriller with an open world action adventure game…Uhhh, lolwut?

There’s the same problem, you didn’t even read my reasons of why I’m comparing such diverse titles. They are massively diverse in what they try to achieve, what they have in common is that they both offer a visceral and breathtaking experience, one that is unmatched by anything else. You could call Mass Effect 2 an emotional rollercoaster, which it was to me, but I don’t think Heavy Rain and Mass Effect 2 could be compared. For starters, Bioware manages to do everything Heavy Rain couldn’t without laying a finger upon the realism of planet Earth. Just Cause 2, however, ramps up reality to ridiculous levels on the similar scales of Heavy Rain.

By Dneid

Seems like someone is jealous of Jim Sterling’s success as the Simon Cowel of gaming.

Seriously, Reading part of the article… I felt like I was reading a Sterling Rant..

Why would I be jealous of Jim? I kind of feel sorry for the guy getting all that hate mail daily. I can see where the problem lies in this “Reading part of the article.”, by all means call me out on being Jim Sterling but do it with actual argument. Quote me, show me where I can be compared. It doesn’t take that much effort and it will show me that I’m wrong. All you’re doing is telling me what I, personally, don’t think I am and not backing it up by anyway.

By jleack

Wow is this article serious? How was this even approved? Heavy Rain has an incredibly deep story while Just Cause 2 has the worst story in months. Just Cause 2 has a huge open world to explore while Heavy Rain is a linear narrative experience.

Sorry, I heard the words ”deep story” and ‘Heavy Rain’ in the same sentence. I doubt you’re a stupid 12 year old, like some people , so allow me to explain. Heavy Rain doesn’t give the player a deep story, it lets them settle into characters and then completely abuses your empathy with them. Just Cause 2′ s story barely exists, but at least it’s cohesive. It’s not filled with cookie cutter people trying to act cookie cutter serious, it’s filled with cookie cutter serious people. The main villain is a man with a green suit and a chameleon on his shoulder. Heavy Rain’s main villain is (SPOILERS) a middle aged, semi-alcoholic and obese detective who’s covering up for all of his child murdering crimes by doing something vastly unrealistic. After seven murders, why is Shelby choosing to gather the evidence now? Why is he intentionally putting his paws and helping his victims, he’s not feeding off their angst or despair, he is intentionally helping them and comforting them. That is complete contradiction that David Cage just let happen.

I salute you, Mr Cage, for trying something different. The chances of its success were very low, and it ended up failing, but at least you tried good sir.

By Araceae

God, this is just complete garbage. How did this even get approved?

Nice that you took the time to read the actual ‘garbage’ and call it ‘garbage’ without any statement of fact.

By AEtherbane

Why Mario Part 456 is blatantly better than MWF2…..
Whats the point of these?

The point is that a game like Heavy Rain is well respected of bringing new emotions to players, while all the while it abuses player connectivity. The emotions is sparks are intentional, but at least 3/4 of the moments it tries to provoke them, it fails because of it bitches around the player. Plotholes everywhere, a player character that completely just ruins the point of the story and the fateful romance between Madison and Ethan.

Just Cause 2 did its things right, it didn’t bridge player emotions or reactions, all it did was let the player do whatever the hell he wants. It attempts to put the player in the heat of being a CIA agent who is currently blowing a fuel depot a new one with a rocket launcher.

By Dawn_Of_Ashes

i can see some trolling in this article….

Wow! You can see whole pages of the internet without even going to the actual page! You must be magic or something, tell me your secret.

By cheetah

This guy has way too much time on his hands. Get a life buddy.

Nice, more personal insults. I don’t have too much time on my hands, I’m a guy who writes about games. That is pretty much my life and where I want to go. I might not hit the bigtime but it’s what I do with my time. I try and write thoughtful pieces on comparisons and other like, and I get thrown away by the gaming community. It’s not like I don’t expect it, it’s that I have to write off the few intelligent responses (like the one way above). There are some very intelligent being who trespass the webnet, and I like it when we can actually validly talk about I’m wrong instead of writing me off with a personal insult.

By Spiden80

The Black hole in the middle of the galaxy has officially gotten bigger and is making gamers dumber!! God Help Us!!

Sorry let me fix that for you.

The black hole in the middle of the galaxy has officially gotten bigger and is making gamers dumber! God help us!

I agree.

By Immortal321

I know this is just an opinion, but why the fck did he made it seem like it’s fact. tell me that. what type of gamers enjoy this type of sh*t. seriously.

Well, when you have an opinion you have to back it up somehow. In every great argument you have to sway your readers, that’s how we do things. That’s every review imaginable, having to state opinion as fact. I try to quote the actual games, cross-reference and research what each tries to do. I played through Heavy Rain again and passed the twenty hour mark on Just Cause 2. I think I had more than a few actual facts.

danielle007

Not quite. Just Cause 2 is pretty cool, haven’t played it through yet, but I did check out the demo. Seemed pretty fun. Heavy Rain is completely different, but also awesome. There’s no way for an apple to be blatantly better than an orange. Sometimes I’m in the mood for an apple, and other days I’ll be in the mood for an orange. As long as they are both ripe, not moldy or bruised, etc, then they’re about equal in my book.

Oh, look, a semi-intelligent response. You don’t get that often. You may be right with your apple and orange analogies, but I think that all videogames are the same fruit. They are all trying to make the player react in some-way. Just Cause 2’s fruit is pretty much an adrenalin shortcake whereas Heavy Rain has a sour taste. It’s filing but it sort of bitches with you.

By ballsofsteel

do you know what i find funny people are here are making a big deal about comparing 2 games that are obviously different however at the end of each year websites across the interwebs calls one game game of the year from a sea of games that are clearly very different. Yet I don’t see anyone crying “you can’t compare different games like that”. Now i’m not saying I agree with this articles but i do find it hypocritical of you guys to write off this article for a reason that you your self ignore towards the end of every year. just saying

This is who I write for, people with sense. Thank you good sir.

By Guitardr85

this should seriously call for steve519 to be kicked from n4g!!!

Steve doesn’t write these articles, I do. Stevey boy is just hear to post what’s worth, and I think this was more than worth. I thought I argued everything as best as I could, and would like to be told WHY I am wrong instead of just plain “You’re wrong.”

By diego750

The guy who said this must have sh** in his head, if he has one. That is one of the most stupid things i have ever heard in my whole life.

NICE THAT YOU TOOK THE TIME TO READ THE ARTICLE. YES IT IS VERY STUPID.

Why is it very stupid?

By Darkfiber

Just Cause 2 is an open world buggy mess. It has terrible voice acting, terrible cutscenes, terrible graphics, terrible controls, terrible AI, terrible mission structure, but OOOOOOO YOU HAVE A GRAPPLING HOOK OMG GOTY. Stupid people are amused so easily. Sorry, but being able to grapple onto something is fun for about 2 minutes, and that’s the only thing that glitchy, cheesy piece of crap has going for it.

Regardless of the obvious differences between the two games, Just Cause 2 is NOT good. The only thing anyone ever praises about it is being able to grapple onto sh*t. How does that make it a good game? I’m not paying $60 to make my own fun. I can do that for free.

Hello no is it a buggy mess for starters. I’ve had zero issues with it. So what if it has terrible voice acting and cutscenes, that’s part of the charm. The graphics are breathtaking, go look it up, the controls do their job. The AI does whatever it can to stop me crashing a chopper into them and the mission structure should be applauded for not showering me with PROTECT X AND ESCORT HIM TO Y.

It’s not Game of the Year, at all, Heavy Rain or Mass Effect 2 should leave its mark upon this year.

It’s not just the grappling hook, that’s a terrible argument. You can spawn a jet, fly into space, skydive into a military complex and dual wield rocket launchers. It’s absolutely basic fun but it does it so goddamn well.

By spektical

epic example of an “apples to oranges” comparison.

In general, gaming journalism is fail, its all about hits to get some advertisement investment.

Game journalism is fail because it tries to backup an argument? I’m not trolling, I don’t want people to click my article just for the title. I was toying with “Just Cause 2 Shits All Over Heavy Rain.”, but even I knew it was trolling.

By AKS

Even by this moron’s own idiotic metric, he gives Just Cause 2 the victory by a slim 3-2 margin to be “blatantly better,” and that includes giving the nod to Just Cause 2 over Heavy Rain in the story department. Someone get this guy a helmet and dribble cup before he hurts himself trying to think.

Nice to fill your semi-intelligent argument with person insulting cannon fodder. Yes, I will say it again, Just Cause 2 has a cohesive story. That’s all it has. Heavy Rain’s story exploits the players intellect and emotions in everway possible.

I would argue the last point, lasting appeal, should be worth two given the differences. I was reading articles after I posted mine and some people have soaked more than a hundred hours into Just Cause 2. It’s insane in the membrane, I wouldn’t believe for a second without the screens of game statistics.

Here’s some Platform Nation commenters.

By Ben Lehman

Great article Nathan! You explained everything well and made some good points for an opinion. However, even though I agree with some points in these sections, I would of given story to Heavy Rain, and gameplay a tie between the two. But that’s just my opinion.

Thank you. If you want to be fair then I’d give the story point to Heavy Rain and the gameplay point to Just Cause 2, but that’s just a totally different opinion. In reality I think I did give my reasons of why Just Cause 2 has a better story than Heavy Rain. Thanks for commenting with thought.

By Mike Hudec

First, let me just say that I’ve only REALLY played Heavy Rain so far. I have sampled the Just Cause 2 demo, though — and, actually, I just made the purchase about two hours ago.

That said, I respect your opinion. I enjoyed Heavy Rain for what it was, but I did have quite a few problems with it. I’m glad I played it, but I don’t think I’ll ever want to do it again.

From what I’ve seen (and played in the demo), Just Cause 2 is a game after my own heart. I’m well aware of the bad voice acting, etc, but in the end I’m sure I’ll prefer JC2 to Heavy Rain.

Here’s my criticism, and it’s a slight one — this is not meant to be trolling so please, do not take it as such. The title of your article bothers me. You say Just Cause 2 is BLATANTLY better than Heavy Rain, and yet it only wins by 1 “point”; 3-2. Blatantly means it very obviously is the better game, but even by your own standards, it was a close call.

Again, I think the article was well written and your logic was sound. I applaud you for taking a chance and siding with what many would say is the underdog. I just know there are many people who skim titles without reading the actual article, and your title seems to be slightly misleading in regards to your article.

Anyways, keep up the good work. I’d like to read more articles in the same vein — opinion pieces, especially “controversial” ones, are of great interest to me.

I liked this comment the most, because it told me why I’m wrong instead of… yeah.

I say Just Cause 2 is blatantly better than Heavy Rain because of the last point – lasting appeal – like I replied earlier to a similar comment, some people have soaked 100 hours into Just Cause 2 and you can speedrun Heavy Rain in 4 hours. I don’t judge by a games length usually, but I think Heavy Rain could have benefited from being episodic instead of spent in just one short go. I think the story would have been a lot better with the responses to certain episodes, but that’s just me.

Thanks for taking the time to comment thoughtfully.

By Boox

Right…. and Just Cause 2 wins GOTY!

No it doesn’t, Mass Effect 2 so far for me.

By xino

I’m not even gonna read this trash article!

Just Cause 2 better than Heavy Rain!?
you must be retarded.
Because they are different genre.

You call me retarded, but don’t even bother to read my words? Nice.

By uneducated

im just going to say stupid retardedly stupid its blogs like this that should be shut down

Yeah, free speech is overrated.

By Jacob

Wow. Just Cause 2’s story better than Heavy Rain’s? That is an incredibly dumb thing to say. Really. Just wow.

I’m sorry, I thought I already gave my reasons? Heavy Rain’s story is an absolute mess of a tale, even if the first half is great, whereas Just Cause 2 has a story that make sense.

By Thanatos

One of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.

You say Just Cause’s story is better than Heavy Rain’s because it doesn’t have one. I blinked a few times and felt a couple brain cells die, but for some reason I continued.

Then you claimed Heavy Rain had better gameplay. As if logic in reality had suddenly inverted.

Unwilling to completely kill what remained of my mind, I skimmed the rest, confirming my fears.

If being in the heat of the moment; a middle aged man coming to stab you, and having to twist your fingers around a controller; isn’t a better gameplay device than shooting things with rocket launcher, then I don’t know what is. Heavy Rain is phenomenoul at exploiting everything it comes in contact with, including the gameplay devices.

Like I said earlier: Heavy Rain’s story had utter potential to be amazing and then flat out ruined it by trying to make a shocking twist. It ruined everything, sacrificed everything for a twist that made no sense, just for the sake of having one.

And nice you only skimmed the rest of my argument.

By Anonymous

Dayyuuum, either the author has serious mental issues or this is a joke.

I laughed very much at your name. You personally insult me and choose not to hide behind a pseudonym or disguise, but just behind an anonymous handle. Bravo sir, you are an internet ninja.

By Ronny

Dude, that was a pretty stupid article. You spend more words discecting Heavy Rain than Just Cause 2 yet you give the ladder the win…
JC is a junkie’s game – plain and simple. HR… why bother. Just don’t ever try a debate course it’ll be a waste of your money and the other people’s time.

Well, what do you really expect. Heavy Rain is such a title in so many gamers minds that I have to give reason for the arguments. Just because you say more words about something doesn’t make it better.

JC is not a junkie’s game, it’s just a fun game that does what it does. Heavy Rain is odd, it doesn’t have a target audience and doesn’t succeed in what it does.

I don’t even know what you mean by a ‘debate course’.

By floatato

Um plagiarism? God awful attempt at plagiarism but plagiarism none the less.

????

By Mike Hudec (again)

I think you’re all missing the point. Yes, Just Cause 2 is a mindless action game. Yes, Heavy Rain is a story driven “cinematic experience”. That said, Heavy Rain is most often considered the superior title because of how innovative it is. He feels the opposite of what the majority says, and gives his reason.

JC2 is better entertainment, Heavy Rain is better art. These kinds of comparisons are common.

The great thing about the internet: someone offers their opinion and it’s immediately shredded to pieces.

Not that this comment is going to change any minds. Still, there’s my two cents.

YEAH WHAT HE SAID.

By fail

1. Garbage article.
2. Flamebait.
3. Post something worthwhile.
4. They’re two different games YOU MORON.

1. Read it before you decide.

2. Honest opinion.

3. Just did.

4. They’re videogames YOU MORON

By Daniel Allison

Now, I understand that certain people have preferences on certain issues and we all have different opinons but I do think there are a few flaws in your discussion (Really well written though, kudos for that).

In the story section you mention that Just Cause 2’s story is completely irrelevant. So if this is the case is it really fair to compare to the games in this regard. I always disagree with people saying different genres can’t be compared because any piece of entertainment can be compared to one another. However, is there much of a point in comparing then if it doesn’t add anything to the experience. Also, which story did you enjoy the most? You mention that Heavy Rain let’s you develop characters based around player’s decisions and choices but the then complain about the romance option. Surely, you would just choose otherwise and stick true to your character.

The story of Just Cause 2 isn’t really anything special and you’ve stated that but still gave it the point. Even if you don’t think Heavy Rain doesn’t make sense, take the main plot and not the sub plot. A killer kindaps young boys and drowns them in rain water but gives the fathers a chance to save their son by completing dangerous trials. We see a father attempting these trials, people investigating it and a journalist wanting info on it. It evolves as it progresses based on your choices and the end of the game will decide the fate of Shaun. Makes perfect sense to me.

A similar problem occurs in sound design. Heavy Rain’s fantastic soundtrack is mentioned and the voice acting is discussed truthfully. Then you go on to say that Just Cause 2 has the worst voice acting you’ve ever heard and like it because of that. The So bad it’s good rule does apply sometimes but when there is some good voice acting in Heavy Rain and none in Just Cause.

Going by my points the score would be 4-1 to Heavy Rain (I agree with the rest) but that’s my opinon, not yours. I respect the fact that you think different but I still believe the points weren’t allocated correctly. I think it would have been better to say that you liked the sheer, long lasting fun you get from Just Cause 2 and just continued from there. Annyway, it was a good articleand I did enjoy reading it (And writing this post)

Quick note: I’m typing this up on my iPod so please excuse spelling mistakes and poor formatting.

This was the very perfect comment I got out of this. This is who I write for, not for flamebait, but for people who take my argument apart and show me why I’m wrong.

Thank you Daniel.

By Dirk

I think the author of this article is trying to make the point that both games have strong and weak points about them and comparing so obviously different games from a technical perspective serves no puprose. Enjoy both games for what they are on each system and be happy competition is alive and well. Such competition challenges us to better games.

Once again, these are the people I write for.

By Jonathon Weeston

Nice work, man. How long did it take you to write this?

I went through both Just Cause 2 and Heavy Rain for a week, took 2 pages of notes and then spent another week writing this thing.

By lol

just cause 2 is repedetive shit

This site is English right?

By noOono

Bien pauvre article.
Tout cela pour faire du buzz et rentabiliser votre site, car taper sur Heavy Rain de la sorte, ça fait venir du monde, ça fait parler…
Pitoyable !
L’auteur de cet article devrait comparer son QI avec celui d’une moule… des affinités pourraient se créer…

Apparently not.

By Edito

I have both games and let tell u ur just being stupid or idiot i couldn’t play just cause 2 for more than 30min the games just sucks and heavy rain i just stopped playing the demo when bought the full game…

Then why did you buy both games?

Summary.

Here’s a quote for Daniel Allison again:

Oh, and to all the posts saying the writer is a flaming and a fanboy, actually read the article first. If you really feel so strongly about games that you need to protect them hen surely you must enjoy reading articles doing the same thing…

… Oh, wait you’re the fanboy so you obviously won’t take on board others opinions…

You may wonder to yourself, the people who’ve now taken the time to read the article, that you think I hate you. You think I’m some guy hiding behind a persona. I’m not. I’m Nathan Hardisty, I write about videogames, I love videogames and I think Just Cause 2 is a better experience than Heavy Rain. In the end, Heavy Rain is the more memorable title, and deserves a spot in gaming history. It’s an example of what can be achieved, with just a little bit of innovation.

Why do I bother? Writing, writing and writing away just to be called a troll or insulted by twelve year old boys. It’s for people like Daniel, Mike and the P*N writers as a whole. We respect each others opinions, we are a community, and if we can’t get along with different opinions then that’s why gaming is in tatters. That’s why we have exclusive titles, which punish the consumer and fuel fanboys to campaign for them.

We’re all human in the end. If insults from 12 year olds is the price I have to pay for having an honest opinion, so be it.

Thanks for reading (again).

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s