David Cage doesn’t know what a game is

This article just went up on Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/#!5775640/a-plea-for-games-to-grow-up

Basically David Cage (Heavy Rain) giving a ‘grow up’ talk, most of it impromptu. It’s really inspiring to see someone so invested in the video-games industry who still believes that he’s made a positive change. He hasn’t, if anything he’s lowered the bar in ever way. Case in point, the handsome Jim Sterling’s article over at Destructoid: http://www.destructoid.com/why-heavy-rain-proves-ebert-right-165034.phtml

More below: Continue reading

The Big Problem Response

This is a response to the insanely well written rebuttal of my “Big Problem” essay. It’s worth checking out, I’ll highlight the points even I can’t defend, but otherwise, this will be a response to a response. Read the rebuttal here.

For the first two bits, Stewart Loosmore (the author of the article – lets call him Stewie – because I’m lazy) makes points that I agree with. The “Better than Life” statement a la Red Dwarf holds up strongly in this case and it’s certainly nice to see a like-minded person agreeing with me. The second bit concerns the outsider’s perspective of “games=art” and makes the exact same point that I did in my book (Up, Down, Left Right – Volume One) in response to Ebert’s argument, I argued “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. What I perceive to be enriching to my life, namely video-games, is clearly seen as a danger to my life by many others. Stewie makes the exact same claims I do, which is all fair and well.

Then we get into dodgy territory. Click below for more.

Continue reading

Some guy constructively criticised me.

http://www.platformnation.com/2010/10/05/the-big-problem-a-rebuttal/

KILL HIM.

In all honesty though, no-one has ever peeled away my arguments or bothered to do anything other than call me gay or king of the world. I’m fine with both because I have no faith in humanity and I like to boost my ego every now and then. Having someone say to me in a big giant post, with all of my points in bold italics, that I’m in the wrong is certainly something new to me. In fact, it’s kind of hard to retaliate given the fact that I’ve… actually left Platform Nation. There’s no longer that implicit relationship that was easily seen on the sigh. Given this, many of people will simply think that that’s that (not a lot of people know I’ve left).

The last time this happened, my words were interpreted incorrectly and we both ended up agreeing to disagree. We’re all mature adults in the end and the worst that would ever happen to a guy like me is being associated with putting “Halo Sucks” on N4G.com and then bitching about it. If you’re gonna bitch about me in a giant rebuttal, instead of taking away my argument like Stewie did, and people applaud you for it; you don’t deserve to live. I might be over-exaggerating but my argument or the progressive discussion of the evolution of video-games as a medium needs people. If you’re gonna jump around the monkey cage with everyone else, fine by me.

I’ll write a counter-point to the counter-point at the weekend.

I’m supposedly having a three week break from writing/researching essays and general big wordy wordy pieces but a few things have come up.

Afterthoughts of Red Dead: The ending, characters and stupid moral compasses

This is very very difficult to write about. So, before we begin, SPOILERS. MASSIVE BIG SPOILERS SPOILERS.

In my mind, the ending of Red Dead pulled a complete U-Turn from what I had expected from a free-roam game. I did like the story, I did like John; I did feel short-changed that I was dictated to have a wife. John had pre-determined characteristics and history, but I was going to give the game a chance to give me some authorship or control over what John does. For the most part, it sort of does, on some sort of leverage around Honour. It’s sort of just a little cover-up for GOOD/EVIL, which I’m so fucking tired of. Why can’t we have more exciting and experimental uses of moral indicators instead of “You killed a baby, now you’re evil-er!” or “You saved the baby, now you’re good-er.”

Going past this, I did feel a little let down by what Red Dead did as a narrative experience. Basically, Rockstar have this sort of formulaic way of doing things. They’ll put you in an open world, where the only thing you can do is shoot people, and then give you a story where you’re either painted as a criminal or just generally trying to get by. In Red Dead Redemption, there are random encounters where you can stop a thief or kill a guy who’s harassing a woman. That’s all fine, but I would have rather something more interesting. How about an actual criminal is being hanged, instead of the ‘damsel in distress’ that keeps arising. I think this would present an interesting opportunity rather than a choice for gamers.

It’s interesting that the story paints you as this heroic outlaw in the dying days of the West and you’re all doing this for your family. But, at the end of the day, they’re not my family. Not my wife. She’s hot, yeah, and she’s an okay character; nothing stands out as much. I think that’s why I also felt a little let down when I played Jack, since they only spend an hour or two characterising him. You can bond with John because of what he says in the cutscenes for 20+ hours or so. After you become Jack, there’s one Stranger mission and that’s it.

I did like that the whole “AVENGE YOUR FATHER” wasn’t a story mission, but a Stranger mission, you had to seek it out yourself. It did give some personal depth through it and I did like the fact you could avenge your own death.

The character within the story are interconnected in such a way that it’s just downright unrealistic. Nigel West Dickens, a scrubbed up polite man somehow knows a grave robber who’s obsessed with finding a map. He also somehow knows a drunken weapons arm dealer who keeps falling into death traps. I don’t like the conversations on the way to places either, it’s just sort of something that’s never stuck with me in Rockstar games. If you’re going to characterise the guy who gave me the mission, do it during gameplay, don’t find some shortcut of where you can fit it in during my drive to the real shootout.

I felt more in the element of the Wild West just going out and hunting, than interacting with the story characters.

The ending, again, I have to talk about. I liked it. I shouldn’t have liked it, but I did. What I didn’t like is that not everybody can enjoy the ending.

You weren’t given authorship over this giant crux of a game changing moment, you couldn’t run away. My John was a good, honest guy who saved women and was generally a changing man. Since he was a restored outlaw, I painted his character as someone who was becoming an honest man, trying to just get back to his family (who I didn’t care about). When the ending came, it did feel okay to me. If John had run with his family, they’d just send another John-character after him. If he had run away from his family, they’d probably go after his family first. So, when given the choice (if there was one) of running away or facing down character death; I would have chosen the latter.

While I was out giving money to the poor and being a good honest soul, others were doing impossibly fun thing. Shooting up bars, dragging people down stairs with the lasso and generally being the most evil bastard who ever could. I was using the things that Rockstar had put in place, to tell John as an honest man. Others were just having fun with it and saying John was an evil, heartless outlaw who just wanted to escape the hand of new government.

They weren’t given a choice in the ending, they weren’t given any sort of freedom within those restrictions. Rockstar constantly told them they cared about John’s family and that they had to die for them. I wrote my review as someone who loved the ending, and thought it was a powerful moment; it turns out it’s more ambiguous than anything else that Rockstar have done.  Seeing it in new light has probably told me that Redemption is another Rockstar title where they spend all their production on working on scripted events and their assuming story. There’s moments I’ve outlined that just come out of nowhere. As Jack, after the story, I’m just totally going bonkers as an outlaw. I was in a poker game, losing terrible, and one guy just busted me out. I lassoed him, dragged him down the stairs (the police don’t get you unless you let go or hogtie him), dragged him all the way out of town and took him out of sight. I lay down one dynamite, kaboom, came back and looted his body for all the money he had taken.

Rockstar can do emergent gameplay REALLY well when it needs to. I just wish they’d realise that not everyone wants to be given a dictate story, that’s more than likely just inspired by film. When I watch a film, I do realise what that character is going through; but I’m not Jack Bauer. I’m not Luke Skywalker. Videogames as you to be someone else entirely in a whole different world; but it seems the stories are just based off of the traditional values of film. “YOU CARE FOR CHARACTER X, NOW GO SEEK VENGEANCE!” to give reason for a whole story. It would give me so much more drive, I would care so much more about the game if you did it to a character I care about. Not a pre-determined character a la YOUR WIFEY.

Just something I wanted to bring up.

Gamers Are Stupid 2: Response and Extension

On Sunday I decided to finally get down to publishing an article I’ve been working for over a month on. During this month I was burgled, I had to take up work experience and I started working on a Source engine mod. I did it though. Maybe I’m slightly smug in saying I’m dead proud of what I’ve achieved, I wrote over three pages of notes and research and played 19 games (not to completion). I stand by every single one of my points.

You might not visit my DTOID blog, P*N page or any of those doodads often enough to know I’m the guy who thinks Just Cause 2 is better than Heavy Rain. I’m the apparent ‘elitist’ who pokes games and tells you why they’re wrong, apparently.

I got a good amount of response from my article; some very valid points were made. Some ironically showed how stupid and impatient gamers can be.

I still even stand by my statement I made before the article (I didn’t write it down): I am one of the stupidest gamers of all time because I point out all my flaws. I already honestly know I won’t change because of what I’ve admitted. I don’t even believe I’ll change anyone’s perspective or make anyone agree with me.

I’m contradicting myself here because it seems some people agree with me.

This is sort of a hybrid of a sequel-extension and a response to the previous article. I think that maybe some of the comments I got just showed how stupid some people can be. I know stupid can be such a strong word but I feel it’s very necessary.

I’m going to start with comments from Platform Nation:

By Debaser
First off, I fail to see how attesting to the fact that gamers (and you) are “stupid” is going to make anyone change their minds. Berating anyone (even for a point) is simply feeding into the negativity and the ignorance you wish to do away with.

You’re slightly right here but I just wanted to explain why people can be so stupid. I even said outright near the end of the article that I doubted anyone would change because of what I wrote.

We’re ignorant for not supporting more “art games,” yes? So that means we should drop everything and turn our undying attention to games such as Braid, Flower, etc. simply because they MUST be the only games capable of making someone like Ebert understand where he is wrong?

Of course not; we shouldn’t drop the mainstream or else the industry would (theoretically) collapse. We shouldn’t turn our full attention to artgames all the time because, as you’ll say later in the comment, some of them are just disguised in thin layers of promise. In fact, they promise to make you sit in a corner holding your knees and trying to figure out the metaphors.

Did you ever stop to think that Ebert isn’t wrong and that his opinion is not the be-all and end-all of video game culture? So he doesn’t find games to be high art. That’s no skin off my nose. I don’t respect the man any less for his opinion. There are plenty other well-educated and highly respected individuals the world over who praise the medium as it should be praised, and not only because of “arthouse” games such as Shadow of the Colossus or any of the examples you’ve mentioned here, but even from mainstream games that you seem to be so fervently against.

He is wrong, he’s very very wrong. He doesn’t realise the potential that games have been pointing to since the beginning of this millennia. I do care what Ebert thinks because he is a collective; he has hordes of readers who will obey his every command. They’re not biased towards him they would just take his word over my own. Ebert is old and probably will never live to experience a ‘gamer changer’ as it’s been billed, I doubt he’s much of a gamer anyway.

I am not against mainstream games, I’m just against the idea that all we are is an industry that takes mainstream over indie and does not hold them equal. Neither should come before the other.

Did you ever stop to think that people purchase “mainstream” titles because they find them fun? Personally, I can’t get into Braid. I’m not interested in whatever message it’s trying to convey, and I don’t think its mechanics are worth drooling over. Why can’t Flower simply be a relaxing, casual adventure rather than an epic social commentary on life and pollution and loneliness and the pain of being human? It’s a game. When you come right down to it, all of the games you mentioned and all of the big-budget titles are simply video games.

I would argue that Flower can work both ways. It can be whatever you want it to be. I do not seek artistic expression within videogames, I just absorb what they have to offer. Flower was relaxing at the same time it was expressing the human condition; it mixed into this middle-ground that changed my thinking for some time.

If you find greater meaning in them via your own methods or if they were intended to hold greater meaning, that’s fine and dandy. But why must we only herald games from independent creators? Are you saying we should also stop seeing big-budget movie releases that are capable of producing original and moving narratives simply to support the little guy? And what about independent publishers? Should we only support them too so we can forget about the big guys since they’re obviously incapable of producing anything other than cashmongering drivel?

No.

We shouldn’t give indie games slack. If they fail as a videogame then they fail as a piece of art in my book. Let’s just take for example when a game such as Flower comes along. What if it had awful gameplay mechanics but exhibited the same social commentary. It would fail as a videogame and wouldn’t be a videogame that is art; just one with art in it.

I’m not saying this should be one giant movement, all I am trying to say is that the big massive publishers already have more than enough financial support.

I don’t doubt that mainstream games can exhibit the same conventions as arthouse or indie games can. Heavy Rain (as hard as it is) came from Sony, a largely big-budget publisher, and it was given a huge advertising campaign. I think Heavy Rain, personally, is overrated but the arty videogame side of it has potential.

In case you haven’t noticed, “indie” is not always synonymous with good or insightful.

The amount of times I’ve been tricked into this is unbelievable. “The Path” and “The Graveyard” were telling small little ten minute stories and going for five bucks on Steam. I decided to delve into these and it was a complete waste of time. In “The Graveyard” it was supposed to highlight the immobility and slowing of pace of when you become older. It started off okay, you play as an old woman, but it’s so small and compact that it only has one layer of interpretation. As a videogame it fails its objective and as an expressive form it barely does anything.

If you don’t believe me just browse the indie section of XBLA and tell me how many of those games were as “artsy” or “touching.” I’m willing to bet next to none.

I don’t think the actual indie section of XBLA offers indie games, I’m talking about actual XBLA releases such as Braid.

But that’s not only due to their budget, is it? That’s because their game ideas or their execution sucked. If your idea sucks and your gameplay sucks, the game is going to suck regardless of how much money or notoriety is backing it. Whether you’re an indie dev or not, if your ideas aren’t worth anything the game won’t be either, and no 8-bit graphics or gimmickry is going to change that, neither is a bloated, “philosophical” story.

I agree. If you sticker yourself as an artgame you have to prove it.

In the end, let games be games. If gamers are so ignorant to you then don’t choose to classify yourself as one. Or just stop being so negative about the state of the industry and support it the ways you find appropriate.

This is a way I find appropriate. I want to highlight the negative aspects of our industry, as I already highlight the positive elsewhere on the site.

Gaming is becoming more and more a part of socially-acceptable activities and it’s going to change whether you like it or not, just like music, books, and every other form of entertainment.

I believe it’s going to change for the better.

They have their struggles as well. But complaining and heralding yourself above the rest of those of us who have enjoyed the hobby for years is not going to change a thing except how much we respect you, which right now is not so much.

I don’t herald myself about the rest of you. I’m not Jesus, I don’t see the holy light that no one else sees. I’m a writer who just wants to share his opinion. I’ve researched it and I’ve made up my mind. I don’t value my life or existence, I’m not smug. I think I’m a horrible writer who contradicts his very self with every article he writes.

I don’t really care how much you respect me, or anyone else for that matter, I just care for people like you.

I care for people who actually take the time to reply instead of swearing it off with personal insult (as I usually get).

By neptunasalad

Graphics are important; they are just as important to a game as gameplay. To say that it is not important is to undermine all the technological steps that the industry took to get where it is today. Some of the best games on the wii have great gameplay and graphics. (tertiary qualities: one cannot be greater than the other; they simply are)

I disagree entirely. Back in the PS2 era, where my writing flower was developing, I didn’t really care for the graphics. If you want to take about presentation then I say that the atmosphere does matter but that doesn’t entirely rely on technological steps.

Piracy: that IS a big issue to overcome. I found out that even wiiware titles can be hijacked! The nintendo DS is even beyond that point. I barely know anyone who has legitimate games anymore; I try to sell my old games and get scorn for “overcharging” things that are available for free.

I see companies such as Ubisoft putting the piracy lock and chains around their games with systems such as DRM. Pirates can easily get past them and all it really does is hurt the actual consumer.

To counter this, I think that the next wave of consoles will simply be more involved in their online facilities. You hack- you get banned and cannot connect.

Given the trend, we may get a hybrid generation of solid disks and digital distribution.

My final thought? Ever since dreamcast fell, the games that were in arcades and on consoles have been replaced by these interactive war movies.

Shadow of the Colossus. That is all.

By IamGAWD

ur probably some person who was a indie developer and failed because no one bought your product, so u are pissed at the world for not buying your lame game and now you are just backing up indie developers with there games, so u can make some $$$. you might fool other people but no me! aahahahahahahahahahahahaha….. now your probably trying find way to defend your article from what i said but you cant because its the truth! ahahaha

I’ll take this comment as a stepping stone to explain my involvement in actual game development. As I said at the start of the post, I am developing a Source mod but that will be available free of charge.
If I was an Indie Developer I wouldn’t be writing for the best damn websites on the web; I’d probably have a personal blog.

Just google me 🙂

By Nadrewod999

Very interesting article. I agree that, while most gamers do seem to try to defend the notion that games are art/games make you smarter/there is anything good about games, most (myself included) don’t buy as many of these as we should. I have also seen too many “FIRST!” and “@soandso, u suck” comments to believe all gamers are smart. However, I will contest your notions that there are no gaming sites that cover the little games like “Sleep is Death” and that there are no good gaming magazines without “PS3″, “360″, “Nintendo”, or some other manufacturer reference in the title. I am currently a member of Gamesradar, and a subscriber to Game Informer (GameStop’s magazine), and I would say both cover almost every game, mainstream or indie, and are never biased (for example, two of the latest news articles on Gamesradar were your standard review for “Halo: Reach” and “A Halo-hater’s review of Reach”)

I didn’t say “ALL WEBSITES ARE BIASED LULZ”, I think I even cited Destructoid as a place of intellectual discussion. I’d include Gamesradar in that pool too though.
But I would still say there are more biased/poddycocking magazines/publications/gaming websites than actual honest ones.

Also, whenever a Gamesradar article gets my brain pumping, I often prefer to write a detailed explanation of why I like/hate what the author says rather than just saying “U LIE!”, so I often take apart someone’s article piece by piece.

Good. You’re less stupid than me. STILL STUPID BECAUSE YOU DON’T SUPPORT ARTGAMES GRRRR.
(sarcasm :D) thanks for taking the time to comment.

By Kane_1371

[b]i mostly agree with you about we gamers being stupid.
but being a fanboy doesn’t have to mean that you are stupid too.[/b]

I think that when you only take one side, then you do reside yourself to being less of an observer who has a full panoramic view of the situation.

i’m a SONY fanboy, but if i act low and like ignorant person then i’m just showing other people that all the SONY fanboys or girls are dick head jerks.

I’m not saying they’re stupid in the way they manage their language or use of coherent sentences, I’m saying that they’re stupid just of how biased they are. We are a multi-formatted industry and whether you like it or not, we need to get along.

[b]i have met many SONY and MS fanboys and fangirls whom acted very good for a fanboy or fangirl.
this just depands on how mature is that person.
and lets be hounest, don’t you care about graphics?[/b]

Not really.

how much is the chance of you buying a game which has a bad graphic for current generation?
i personally care alot about graphics and atmosphere’s design.
i don’t know, maybe i’m a moron, but hey, we all have our opinions.
and as Swedish people say: opinions are like people’s ass, everybody has one

Opinions are like games, PS3 has none (joke).
I only really care about atmosphere and design rather than actual photo-realism.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

By Jason

Any entertainment industry will be plagued with two extremes. I guess there are actually more than two extremes but this post highlights opposite ends of the spectrum. “Elitests” like Mr. Hardisty and Mr. Ebert vs “average gamer/movie goer”.

I’m a writer; that’s all I am. I don’t value myself above the average Joe, I just see games differently. That’s not a smug statement either. In fact I’d rather see them different.

I don’t see them any better than you do.

Elitests watch/play a product with an insightful eye, looking for the nuances of a story and a need to be emotionally moved by what they are participating in.

I gave a good review for Splinter Cell Conviction; do you think I wanted it to make me cry?

They deconstruct every aspect and truly believe that there needs to be thoughtful meaning to every detail.

Hell no.

Enter the other guy… The average guy. He is looking to be entertained. He is looking to escape. He wants to see stuff blow up, he wants to snipe fools from across the map while his buddy has the flag. He doesnt want to question his morality or ponder the meaning of life the way Roger and Nathan do. Guess what, there is nothing wrong with either side. There will always be a separation and a sense of bitterness between the “elitest” and the “average joe”.

There’s apparently a war between the writers and the readers; or the elitists and the average Joe. I don’t play games to change my way of thinking, I don’t seek for that to happen all the time. Yes, I do want more games that change my scope of thinking but if that was every game then the industry would be pretty boring.

If one of us had to cease to exist then I’d just the elitests anyday. We don’t need to bother trying to argue that games have more meaning than entertainment! That’s not what games are for.

Fun isn’t enough.

By T

Your article almost made me cringe to death.

How are you still typing.

Seriously? So one person stating that “Just Cause 2 is repedetive shit” makes most gamers stupid?

It was a collective example, there are hundreds of thousands like it.

And why are you so concerned with punctuation and good grammar?

I’m not, I’m concerned that gamers can manifest a valid opinion without resorting to personal insult.

I’m sure you’re aware that it is quite possible to present a good point without any of those. So because you don’t believe graphics is an important part of gameplay, that must render anyone who believes so more stupid than you are?

If people want to argue that graphics are an integral part of the game then I’ll listen and hear the argument. I’d sacrifice my point if you want them to be valued on the same level of gameplay, but not in the sense most people see it. I’d value atmosphere over photo-realism anyday.

I’d also say I’m more stupid than you because of the mistakes I’ve made.

Put your hands up. Slap yourself in the face? Really? How bored were you when you came up with this article?

Not much. I thought that was my ace in the hole ;(

Do you understand the concept of “preference?” Do you not understand that it’s okay for people to like things that you might not?

Of course I do; but it’s not exactly enough when people call me gay and that I’m wrong without explaining why. Preference could be moulded into the same as subjectivity.

And then the rant about Indie games which went on for too long with nothing tangible being said.

I don’t get it. I outlined the point that indie games is where new sparks of innovation will fly, not within the confines of mainstream. I said that I myself are too stupid to support them financially, and that we need to strike a balance.

Though there are some things in the article that I do agree with, as a whole though, this article is a whole lot of “FAIL.” And you should try editing your article again, I caught a few misspellings here and there and I know you don’t want people quoting those rare cases and declaring you stupid as a result.

I ran it by two Platform Nation editors and it was 3000 words long. We’re not the most professional of sites so there’s bound to be a lot of mistakes. I already said too that I think I’m a horrible writer.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

These comments came from Destructoid:

By AlphaDeus

Wow. This blog puts me in a state of shock. First, it’s crazy to think that someone out there can possibly type more than me :P. Second, I had to stop because unlike every other blog I come across, I didn’t want to read the rest because it would be pointless. And third, this will probably be my shortest comment ever…

You can’t fight Stupidity with Stupidity. Whatever point you were trying to make with this blog, I’m not interested in because you seem to ramble either just as much or more than me. At the very least it makes me understand why long pointless posts are long and pointless, and I’ll try to sculpt mine better. Thanks =p

I think I take this more of an insult than anything else. I don’t doubt your sincerity but I feel that your heart is in the wrong place. I don’t think the whole of the article was pointless and I don’t think I rambled on. I was definitely not stupid in the way I conveyed my opinion.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to comment

By Aurain

Way too long.

First draft was 5,000 words; this is around 3,000 words.

Way too short 🙂

By DowskiBomb

i can appreciate both a mainstream game and a indie game. This is a generalization of gamers being stupid. the same can be done with any group by quoting the few that fit that description.

also:
LOL you cried over a game

Good that you can appreciate both, but do you actually buy indie games? Do you buy the innovative titles. I don’t.

You’re maybe right the generalization, I did put it into sub-categories though – “fanboys”, “elitists” etc.

Also:
Okay, so I cried and you haven’t. Doesn’t matter, way videogames are. They can be interpreted in a bazillion different ways.

By Elsa

Sorry… but I disagree with most everything you’ve written here. My response in full would likely be longer than this enormously long rambling blog, so I won’t punish you by writing one, however I will say I think your age is showing with much of this. I thought you seemed very young from what you’ve written, and checking your sidebar shows you are indeed quite a bit younger than myself (I’m 48). It seems that your experience of gaming history (and even the present) is colored by that lens.

This was a really interesting read though.. even if it did make me feel old. Oddly, I think with age you start to see more of the beauty around you. Gaming today is truly wondrous when you’ve been around to see it’s full evolution. The fact that people even CAN write words and communicate with each other from far away places is also something I find amazing. While some of those words are spewing hate… others are filled with beauty and can touch the heart. Gaming… it has touched so many people and the depth and breadth of gaming today is astonishing – so many varieties of games, all of them so readily accessible.

Meh… people have always been stupid… it’s part of our charm and what makes life interesting.

I think this comment shocked me more than any other. More so because of the actual age.

If you look around the articles I’ve written then it’s usually 50:50 with me complaining about gamers and then me talking how amazing videogames can be.

By Poe

I – and most people here – don’t fall under many of the categories of stupidity you outlined here, but I agree that out in the wild, untamed interwebs lie untold amounts of slobbering fools who do.

I am guilty of ignoring promising indie games (I still haven’t got World of Goo or P.B. Winterbottom yet) in favour of OMG NEXT MARIO/ZELDA GAME OMG, and for that I do hang my head in shame. Shame of being a big stupid stupid-head.

Also, you are abnormally articulate especially considering how young you are.

Since this was from Destructoid, I don’t hold any bias but, I knew there’d be more intelligent responses.

Yes you should hang your head in shame you big stupid stupid face! It’s a trend that none of us can beat, I only wanted to highlight it.

And thanks for the compliment; I think I’m a horrible writer.

By Xzyliac

I disagree as well from what I read. I think it’s negative and you’re looking at one side of the coin through a cynical light.

There’s nothing special about your fandom of choice. People are people. You either thicken your skin, learn to love ’em and be positive (Protip: This will lead to good company) or be a negative cynic (Protip: This will lead to bad company).

Gamers aren’t stupid. They’re human.

As I’ve said before this isn’t the only stuff I write. I think it’s brilliant given that we do support innovation within our industry. Just not enough.

I wrote some other things about great games and the greatness of our industry and other things beginning with ‘great’.

By Iron Dragon

So wait… Your argument is that gamers are stupid for not buying art games? Even if we don’t care if games are art? What?

My argument is that gamers are stupid for not supporting them enough. I don’t care if you think they’re art or not, have your fun, I just want people to see both sides of the coin really.

I buy and play games to relax and have fun usually. Not to seek some deep meaning from them (Though sometimes I want that). I don’t think gaming for fun or entertainment makes me an idiot.

I never said “GRRR GAMES SHOULDN’T BE FUN.”, games should be fun before anything else. I just want more double-meaning games rather than mainstream entertainment outlets.

I know what I’m buying and I like what I’m buying. Just like the people who buy Call of Duty buy it and play it because they enjoy it. Do I think it’s a poor game? Yes. Thus I personally didn’t buy it… But at the same time I understand other people love it. It’s what they enjoy.

Let them be then.

Do I wish every game could be as well made as Shadow of the Colossus, God Hand, or whatever? Sure, but I realize that’s MY ideal world. Other people aren’t stupid for wanting different things or having other opinions. They might be stupid for being misinformed or illogical in their reasoning, but if they genuinely enjoy Call of Duty 10: Zombie Hitler… Who are we to say no you shouldn’t enjoy that and label them as stupid for it?

I wouldn’t label them stupid, because they’re not open to the idea of artgames. They’re not stupid, just misinformed. The article wasn’t written for them in mind.

And hell no, if everygame was as well made as Shadow of the Colossus then the world would be pretty damn boring.

That’s just being elitist, not intelligent. You’re no better than the console fanboys. You’ve just instead become an art game fanboy arguing your opinion is fact.

Ouch.

No.

If I’m brutally honest then the sparks of innovation we get from indie games or small titles always becomes a fire in the mainstream titles. For a while, Rockstar Games could be classed as an independent company. They’ve now involved into an independent publisher and developer, but I think what changed them was GTA III. It was a small title, at the time, and completely engulfed the average idea of a free-roam.

I doubt you’d get that today.

I don’t value my opinion over yours, I think I’m stupider than you for example.

I’m a writer, by the way, I have to argue my opinion as fact or else I’d be out of a hobby/semi-job.

Also as a side note I’d argue graphics can be important to game… Not everything but still important. Would a game like Jet Set Radio be in some of our hearts forever if it wasn’t cel shaded or had a different style? Even with titles like Bad Company 2 or Crysis… The foliage in the environment can create new gameplay opportunities for stealth.

I think that those aren’t graphics, just style really. The foliage in Crysis and the water effects add to the atmosphere of hyper-realism.

By occams electric toothbrush

I take issue with any group of people that make their passion into an exclusive niche where if you don’t know the right games/albums/books/etc, you aren’t cool. Be a fan of the thing you love but don’t be an asshole. Use your passion to teach others and share your love of something. That’s one of the many reasons I love coming to Destructoid. People share and discuss, but rarely do they act like pricks about games. Anything that makes it elitist is weak shit in my book.

I’m going to echo myself here and say I don’t value my opinion over anyone else. I’m just putting my opinion across and allowing discussion to flow. I really don’t like it when I’m hailed as an elitist and people think I think I’m better than everybody else.

Truth is I don’t want to be Nathan Hardisty. Depressing statement but a while ago I was told that when you start writing about games, you see them different. Maybe not always for the better.

I’ve written about how brilliant games can be, how bad games can get and also how us gamers are the very next step in social evolution.

If that’s elitism then God strike me down.

Just Cause 2 Or Heavy Rain?…. The Response

Good god, what have I done! I tried to write an intelligent and thoughtful article which would incite a debate with intelligent responses,  instead of 12 year olds with personal insults.

Guess which I got.

By ‘WhatARump’

I looked at the title in confusion

I read the first paragraph and was no longer confused-

Summary: The writer is a dumbass.

By Chris339

His troll-fu is weak though, compared to the master’s. Back to suckle at Jim’s hairy teat of trollish wisdom.

Better luck next time.

And ffs don’t get curious and click on the link, I guarantee nothing intelligent is inside.

Lovely that you take the time to comment and call me unintelligent, without even clicking the link. If you clicked it, you would’ve found out that I’m not comparing Just Cause 2 vs Heavy Rain as complete experiences. As icons in the industry, Heavy Rain should leave a mark. It’s an experiment gone wrong, but an experiment nonetheless.

I think this is what peeves me off more than anything else I’m seeing from the comments section – “What, but you can’t even compare them?”, “Troll!”, exactly what I expected from some people. I didn’t want this to hit N4G, it did but I knew it wouldn’t get to me, low and behold a billion accusations.

Some comments I’m happy with.

By zenosega04

Well since reviews are just opinions, it would seem that in the opinion of most “professional” reviewers Heavy Rain is a very good game. Hence its critical acclaim.

And yes, I would agree with most reviewers in saying that GTA 4 was better than 95% of the games that had been released up until that point. What some of you seem to be forgetting is that Grand Theft Auto came out before nearly every other critically acclaimed of the generation. Before Uncharted 2, LittleBigPlanet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Mass Effect 2, God of War 3… and any other critically acclaimed game with in the last 2 years.

I’m not saying that GTA 4 was perfect, or that it even deserved the 98 average, but the fact of the matter is GTA 4 was a great game. Just because you hated it and most people on this site and many other sites seem to dislike it, that doesn’t negate the fact that there are millions of people that loved GTA 4.

And I’m not saying that Heavy Rain and Just Cause 2 are in anyway comparable, the metacritic scores were just to prove a point.

By Gradient

Detective Dumphuck outdoes himself.

That doesn’t even make any sense!

By callahan09

Quit stealing from Destructoid!

This was something I got a lot too, that apparently actually having an opinion is ‘trolling’. I go to Destructoid a lot but none of the writers influence me. I think Jim Sterling is hilarious but not always on top form. Usually I’ll cite Anthony Burch as a writing influence, but that’s about it. I think that you can find some very intelligent and thoughtful discussions on DTOID, instead of people who just throw a title away and consider it ‘trolling’.

By Aphne

I’m not even going to click on the link. So many flamebait headlines now, it’s getting ridiculous.

This is the thing, I said earlier, that I’m tired about. Whenever a title says something controversial or ‘trolling’, it’s just pointed towards Destructoid and not even read. What is the point of having websites such as Platform Nation or Destructoid or any possible combination, unless you’re willing to read and comment on the material given. Disagree, I love it when disagree, but disagreeing without even bothering to hear my argument is what gets me about the gaming community.

By Optical_Matrix

Over the past couple of weeks N4G’s front page has looked like someone ejaculated a nice big dose of 2007 all over the place. This is just ridiculous. Hate on Sony and their games. Could we please stop. The two games aren’t even comparable

Oh, so comparing a multiplatform game is fine, but when it’s an exclusive it’s out of bounds? I’m happy that Heavy Rain is on the PS3, given the smaller userbase it’s more of a ‘mature title’ instead of some of the fodder on the 360. Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to Alan Wake, but titles such as Gears of War and Halo just hit the sweet spot with the market. Big, tough guys going into killing things. All nice and dandy. I’m not going to get into a console debate, because I think that each system offers its own great market and plethora of exclusives.

The last sentence “They aren’t even comparable.”, oh really? Just Cause 2 obviously didn’t experiment with player emotion and reaction, Heavy Rain tried something on the polar opposite of Just Cause 2. But as videogames, Heavy Rain shouldn’t be heralded as a new age; it should be a stepping stone for a future generation to get it right. If I had a choice between Heavy Rain and Just Cause 2, as videogames, then I would pick Just Cause 2. If I had to wipe one of the games from the history of the Earth, then it would have to be Just Cause 2, because Heavy Rain means something to some gamers. It means a little to me. It’s a courageous title and one that will likely be important in the next generation of consoles.

By harrykid32

I didn’t even read the article. But comparing a quick time event thriller with an open world action adventure game…Uhhh, lolwut?

There’s the same problem, you didn’t even read my reasons of why I’m comparing such diverse titles. They are massively diverse in what they try to achieve, what they have in common is that they both offer a visceral and breathtaking experience, one that is unmatched by anything else. You could call Mass Effect 2 an emotional rollercoaster, which it was to me, but I don’t think Heavy Rain and Mass Effect 2 could be compared. For starters, Bioware manages to do everything Heavy Rain couldn’t without laying a finger upon the realism of planet Earth. Just Cause 2, however, ramps up reality to ridiculous levels on the similar scales of Heavy Rain.

By Dneid

Seems like someone is jealous of Jim Sterling’s success as the Simon Cowel of gaming.

Seriously, Reading part of the article… I felt like I was reading a Sterling Rant..

Why would I be jealous of Jim? I kind of feel sorry for the guy getting all that hate mail daily. I can see where the problem lies in this “Reading part of the article.”, by all means call me out on being Jim Sterling but do it with actual argument. Quote me, show me where I can be compared. It doesn’t take that much effort and it will show me that I’m wrong. All you’re doing is telling me what I, personally, don’t think I am and not backing it up by anyway.

By jleack

Wow is this article serious? How was this even approved? Heavy Rain has an incredibly deep story while Just Cause 2 has the worst story in months. Just Cause 2 has a huge open world to explore while Heavy Rain is a linear narrative experience.

Sorry, I heard the words ”deep story” and ‘Heavy Rain’ in the same sentence. I doubt you’re a stupid 12 year old, like some people , so allow me to explain. Heavy Rain doesn’t give the player a deep story, it lets them settle into characters and then completely abuses your empathy with them. Just Cause 2′ s story barely exists, but at least it’s cohesive. It’s not filled with cookie cutter people trying to act cookie cutter serious, it’s filled with cookie cutter serious people. The main villain is a man with a green suit and a chameleon on his shoulder. Heavy Rain’s main villain is (SPOILERS) a middle aged, semi-alcoholic and obese detective who’s covering up for all of his child murdering crimes by doing something vastly unrealistic. After seven murders, why is Shelby choosing to gather the evidence now? Why is he intentionally putting his paws and helping his victims, he’s not feeding off their angst or despair, he is intentionally helping them and comforting them. That is complete contradiction that David Cage just let happen.

I salute you, Mr Cage, for trying something different. The chances of its success were very low, and it ended up failing, but at least you tried good sir.

By Araceae

God, this is just complete garbage. How did this even get approved?

Nice that you took the time to read the actual ‘garbage’ and call it ‘garbage’ without any statement of fact.

By AEtherbane

Why Mario Part 456 is blatantly better than MWF2…..
Whats the point of these?

The point is that a game like Heavy Rain is well respected of bringing new emotions to players, while all the while it abuses player connectivity. The emotions is sparks are intentional, but at least 3/4 of the moments it tries to provoke them, it fails because of it bitches around the player. Plotholes everywhere, a player character that completely just ruins the point of the story and the fateful romance between Madison and Ethan.

Just Cause 2 did its things right, it didn’t bridge player emotions or reactions, all it did was let the player do whatever the hell he wants. It attempts to put the player in the heat of being a CIA agent who is currently blowing a fuel depot a new one with a rocket launcher.

By Dawn_Of_Ashes

i can see some trolling in this article….

Wow! You can see whole pages of the internet without even going to the actual page! You must be magic or something, tell me your secret.

By cheetah

This guy has way too much time on his hands. Get a life buddy.

Nice, more personal insults. I don’t have too much time on my hands, I’m a guy who writes about games. That is pretty much my life and where I want to go. I might not hit the bigtime but it’s what I do with my time. I try and write thoughtful pieces on comparisons and other like, and I get thrown away by the gaming community. It’s not like I don’t expect it, it’s that I have to write off the few intelligent responses (like the one way above). There are some very intelligent being who trespass the webnet, and I like it when we can actually validly talk about I’m wrong instead of writing me off with a personal insult.

By Spiden80

The Black hole in the middle of the galaxy has officially gotten bigger and is making gamers dumber!! God Help Us!!

Sorry let me fix that for you.

The black hole in the middle of the galaxy has officially gotten bigger and is making gamers dumber! God help us!

I agree.

By Immortal321

I know this is just an opinion, but why the fck did he made it seem like it’s fact. tell me that. what type of gamers enjoy this type of sh*t. seriously.

Well, when you have an opinion you have to back it up somehow. In every great argument you have to sway your readers, that’s how we do things. That’s every review imaginable, having to state opinion as fact. I try to quote the actual games, cross-reference and research what each tries to do. I played through Heavy Rain again and passed the twenty hour mark on Just Cause 2. I think I had more than a few actual facts.

danielle007

Not quite. Just Cause 2 is pretty cool, haven’t played it through yet, but I did check out the demo. Seemed pretty fun. Heavy Rain is completely different, but also awesome. There’s no way for an apple to be blatantly better than an orange. Sometimes I’m in the mood for an apple, and other days I’ll be in the mood for an orange. As long as they are both ripe, not moldy or bruised, etc, then they’re about equal in my book.

Oh, look, a semi-intelligent response. You don’t get that often. You may be right with your apple and orange analogies, but I think that all videogames are the same fruit. They are all trying to make the player react in some-way. Just Cause 2’s fruit is pretty much an adrenalin shortcake whereas Heavy Rain has a sour taste. It’s filing but it sort of bitches with you.

By ballsofsteel

do you know what i find funny people are here are making a big deal about comparing 2 games that are obviously different however at the end of each year websites across the interwebs calls one game game of the year from a sea of games that are clearly very different. Yet I don’t see anyone crying “you can’t compare different games like that”. Now i’m not saying I agree with this articles but i do find it hypocritical of you guys to write off this article for a reason that you your self ignore towards the end of every year. just saying

This is who I write for, people with sense. Thank you good sir.

By Guitardr85

this should seriously call for steve519 to be kicked from n4g!!!

Steve doesn’t write these articles, I do. Stevey boy is just hear to post what’s worth, and I think this was more than worth. I thought I argued everything as best as I could, and would like to be told WHY I am wrong instead of just plain “You’re wrong.”

By diego750

The guy who said this must have sh** in his head, if he has one. That is one of the most stupid things i have ever heard in my whole life.

NICE THAT YOU TOOK THE TIME TO READ THE ARTICLE. YES IT IS VERY STUPID.

Why is it very stupid?

By Darkfiber

Just Cause 2 is an open world buggy mess. It has terrible voice acting, terrible cutscenes, terrible graphics, terrible controls, terrible AI, terrible mission structure, but OOOOOOO YOU HAVE A GRAPPLING HOOK OMG GOTY. Stupid people are amused so easily. Sorry, but being able to grapple onto something is fun for about 2 minutes, and that’s the only thing that glitchy, cheesy piece of crap has going for it.

Regardless of the obvious differences between the two games, Just Cause 2 is NOT good. The only thing anyone ever praises about it is being able to grapple onto sh*t. How does that make it a good game? I’m not paying $60 to make my own fun. I can do that for free.

Hello no is it a buggy mess for starters. I’ve had zero issues with it. So what if it has terrible voice acting and cutscenes, that’s part of the charm. The graphics are breathtaking, go look it up, the controls do their job. The AI does whatever it can to stop me crashing a chopper into them and the mission structure should be applauded for not showering me with PROTECT X AND ESCORT HIM TO Y.

It’s not Game of the Year, at all, Heavy Rain or Mass Effect 2 should leave its mark upon this year.

It’s not just the grappling hook, that’s a terrible argument. You can spawn a jet, fly into space, skydive into a military complex and dual wield rocket launchers. It’s absolutely basic fun but it does it so goddamn well.

By spektical

epic example of an “apples to oranges” comparison.

In general, gaming journalism is fail, its all about hits to get some advertisement investment.

Game journalism is fail because it tries to backup an argument? I’m not trolling, I don’t want people to click my article just for the title. I was toying with “Just Cause 2 Shits All Over Heavy Rain.”, but even I knew it was trolling.

By AKS

Even by this moron’s own idiotic metric, he gives Just Cause 2 the victory by a slim 3-2 margin to be “blatantly better,” and that includes giving the nod to Just Cause 2 over Heavy Rain in the story department. Someone get this guy a helmet and dribble cup before he hurts himself trying to think.

Nice to fill your semi-intelligent argument with person insulting cannon fodder. Yes, I will say it again, Just Cause 2 has a cohesive story. That’s all it has. Heavy Rain’s story exploits the players intellect and emotions in everway possible.

I would argue the last point, lasting appeal, should be worth two given the differences. I was reading articles after I posted mine and some people have soaked more than a hundred hours into Just Cause 2. It’s insane in the membrane, I wouldn’t believe for a second without the screens of game statistics.

Here’s some Platform Nation commenters.

By Ben Lehman

Great article Nathan! You explained everything well and made some good points for an opinion. However, even though I agree with some points in these sections, I would of given story to Heavy Rain, and gameplay a tie between the two. But that’s just my opinion.

Thank you. If you want to be fair then I’d give the story point to Heavy Rain and the gameplay point to Just Cause 2, but that’s just a totally different opinion. In reality I think I did give my reasons of why Just Cause 2 has a better story than Heavy Rain. Thanks for commenting with thought.

By Mike Hudec

First, let me just say that I’ve only REALLY played Heavy Rain so far. I have sampled the Just Cause 2 demo, though — and, actually, I just made the purchase about two hours ago.

That said, I respect your opinion. I enjoyed Heavy Rain for what it was, but I did have quite a few problems with it. I’m glad I played it, but I don’t think I’ll ever want to do it again.

From what I’ve seen (and played in the demo), Just Cause 2 is a game after my own heart. I’m well aware of the bad voice acting, etc, but in the end I’m sure I’ll prefer JC2 to Heavy Rain.

Here’s my criticism, and it’s a slight one — this is not meant to be trolling so please, do not take it as such. The title of your article bothers me. You say Just Cause 2 is BLATANTLY better than Heavy Rain, and yet it only wins by 1 “point”; 3-2. Blatantly means it very obviously is the better game, but even by your own standards, it was a close call.

Again, I think the article was well written and your logic was sound. I applaud you for taking a chance and siding with what many would say is the underdog. I just know there are many people who skim titles without reading the actual article, and your title seems to be slightly misleading in regards to your article.

Anyways, keep up the good work. I’d like to read more articles in the same vein — opinion pieces, especially “controversial” ones, are of great interest to me.

I liked this comment the most, because it told me why I’m wrong instead of… yeah.

I say Just Cause 2 is blatantly better than Heavy Rain because of the last point – lasting appeal – like I replied earlier to a similar comment, some people have soaked 100 hours into Just Cause 2 and you can speedrun Heavy Rain in 4 hours. I don’t judge by a games length usually, but I think Heavy Rain could have benefited from being episodic instead of spent in just one short go. I think the story would have been a lot better with the responses to certain episodes, but that’s just me.

Thanks for taking the time to comment thoughtfully.

By Boox

Right…. and Just Cause 2 wins GOTY!

No it doesn’t, Mass Effect 2 so far for me.

By xino

I’m not even gonna read this trash article!

Just Cause 2 better than Heavy Rain!?
you must be retarded.
Because they are different genre.

You call me retarded, but don’t even bother to read my words? Nice.

By uneducated

im just going to say stupid retardedly stupid its blogs like this that should be shut down

Yeah, free speech is overrated.

By Jacob

Wow. Just Cause 2’s story better than Heavy Rain’s? That is an incredibly dumb thing to say. Really. Just wow.

I’m sorry, I thought I already gave my reasons? Heavy Rain’s story is an absolute mess of a tale, even if the first half is great, whereas Just Cause 2 has a story that make sense.

By Thanatos

One of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.

You say Just Cause’s story is better than Heavy Rain’s because it doesn’t have one. I blinked a few times and felt a couple brain cells die, but for some reason I continued.

Then you claimed Heavy Rain had better gameplay. As if logic in reality had suddenly inverted.

Unwilling to completely kill what remained of my mind, I skimmed the rest, confirming my fears.

If being in the heat of the moment; a middle aged man coming to stab you, and having to twist your fingers around a controller; isn’t a better gameplay device than shooting things with rocket launcher, then I don’t know what is. Heavy Rain is phenomenoul at exploiting everything it comes in contact with, including the gameplay devices.

Like I said earlier: Heavy Rain’s story had utter potential to be amazing and then flat out ruined it by trying to make a shocking twist. It ruined everything, sacrificed everything for a twist that made no sense, just for the sake of having one.

And nice you only skimmed the rest of my argument.

By Anonymous

Dayyuuum, either the author has serious mental issues or this is a joke.

I laughed very much at your name. You personally insult me and choose not to hide behind a pseudonym or disguise, but just behind an anonymous handle. Bravo sir, you are an internet ninja.

By Ronny

Dude, that was a pretty stupid article. You spend more words discecting Heavy Rain than Just Cause 2 yet you give the ladder the win…
JC is a junkie’s game – plain and simple. HR… why bother. Just don’t ever try a debate course it’ll be a waste of your money and the other people’s time.

Well, what do you really expect. Heavy Rain is such a title in so many gamers minds that I have to give reason for the arguments. Just because you say more words about something doesn’t make it better.

JC is not a junkie’s game, it’s just a fun game that does what it does. Heavy Rain is odd, it doesn’t have a target audience and doesn’t succeed in what it does.

I don’t even know what you mean by a ‘debate course’.

By floatato

Um plagiarism? God awful attempt at plagiarism but plagiarism none the less.

????

By Mike Hudec (again)

I think you’re all missing the point. Yes, Just Cause 2 is a mindless action game. Yes, Heavy Rain is a story driven “cinematic experience”. That said, Heavy Rain is most often considered the superior title because of how innovative it is. He feels the opposite of what the majority says, and gives his reason.

JC2 is better entertainment, Heavy Rain is better art. These kinds of comparisons are common.

The great thing about the internet: someone offers their opinion and it’s immediately shredded to pieces.

Not that this comment is going to change any minds. Still, there’s my two cents.

YEAH WHAT HE SAID.

By fail

1. Garbage article.
2. Flamebait.
3. Post something worthwhile.
4. They’re two different games YOU MORON.

1. Read it before you decide.

2. Honest opinion.

3. Just did.

4. They’re videogames YOU MORON

By Daniel Allison

Now, I understand that certain people have preferences on certain issues and we all have different opinons but I do think there are a few flaws in your discussion (Really well written though, kudos for that).

In the story section you mention that Just Cause 2’s story is completely irrelevant. So if this is the case is it really fair to compare to the games in this regard. I always disagree with people saying different genres can’t be compared because any piece of entertainment can be compared to one another. However, is there much of a point in comparing then if it doesn’t add anything to the experience. Also, which story did you enjoy the most? You mention that Heavy Rain let’s you develop characters based around player’s decisions and choices but the then complain about the romance option. Surely, you would just choose otherwise and stick true to your character.

The story of Just Cause 2 isn’t really anything special and you’ve stated that but still gave it the point. Even if you don’t think Heavy Rain doesn’t make sense, take the main plot and not the sub plot. A killer kindaps young boys and drowns them in rain water but gives the fathers a chance to save their son by completing dangerous trials. We see a father attempting these trials, people investigating it and a journalist wanting info on it. It evolves as it progresses based on your choices and the end of the game will decide the fate of Shaun. Makes perfect sense to me.

A similar problem occurs in sound design. Heavy Rain’s fantastic soundtrack is mentioned and the voice acting is discussed truthfully. Then you go on to say that Just Cause 2 has the worst voice acting you’ve ever heard and like it because of that. The So bad it’s good rule does apply sometimes but when there is some good voice acting in Heavy Rain and none in Just Cause.

Going by my points the score would be 4-1 to Heavy Rain (I agree with the rest) but that’s my opinon, not yours. I respect the fact that you think different but I still believe the points weren’t allocated correctly. I think it would have been better to say that you liked the sheer, long lasting fun you get from Just Cause 2 and just continued from there. Annyway, it was a good articleand I did enjoy reading it (And writing this post)

Quick note: I’m typing this up on my iPod so please excuse spelling mistakes and poor formatting.

This was the very perfect comment I got out of this. This is who I write for, not for flamebait, but for people who take my argument apart and show me why I’m wrong.

Thank you Daniel.

By Dirk

I think the author of this article is trying to make the point that both games have strong and weak points about them and comparing so obviously different games from a technical perspective serves no puprose. Enjoy both games for what they are on each system and be happy competition is alive and well. Such competition challenges us to better games.

Once again, these are the people I write for.

By Jonathon Weeston

Nice work, man. How long did it take you to write this?

I went through both Just Cause 2 and Heavy Rain for a week, took 2 pages of notes and then spent another week writing this thing.

By lol

just cause 2 is repedetive shit

This site is English right?

By noOono

Bien pauvre article.
Tout cela pour faire du buzz et rentabiliser votre site, car taper sur Heavy Rain de la sorte, ça fait venir du monde, ça fait parler…
Pitoyable !
L’auteur de cet article devrait comparer son QI avec celui d’une moule… des affinités pourraient se créer…

Apparently not.

By Edito

I have both games and let tell u ur just being stupid or idiot i couldn’t play just cause 2 for more than 30min the games just sucks and heavy rain i just stopped playing the demo when bought the full game…

Then why did you buy both games?

Summary.

Here’s a quote for Daniel Allison again:

Oh, and to all the posts saying the writer is a flaming and a fanboy, actually read the article first. If you really feel so strongly about games that you need to protect them hen surely you must enjoy reading articles doing the same thing…

… Oh, wait you’re the fanboy so you obviously won’t take on board others opinions…

You may wonder to yourself, the people who’ve now taken the time to read the article, that you think I hate you. You think I’m some guy hiding behind a persona. I’m not. I’m Nathan Hardisty, I write about videogames, I love videogames and I think Just Cause 2 is a better experience than Heavy Rain. In the end, Heavy Rain is the more memorable title, and deserves a spot in gaming history. It’s an example of what can be achieved, with just a little bit of innovation.

Why do I bother? Writing, writing and writing away just to be called a troll or insulted by twelve year old boys. It’s for people like Daniel, Mike and the P*N writers as a whole. We respect each others opinions, we are a community, and if we can’t get along with different opinions then that’s why gaming is in tatters. That’s why we have exclusive titles, which punish the consumer and fuel fanboys to campaign for them.

We’re all human in the end. If insults from 12 year olds is the price I have to pay for having an honest opinion, so be it.

Thanks for reading (again).